obama when he had those opportunities, either punted and didn't want to, you know, go into the rough and tumable with the governor, which is surprising, because i wouldn't have expected that from him. >> rose: thank you, ben, thank you, david. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: great to see you. back in a moment, stay with us. the fundamental principles of democracy rely on an accurate and reliable system of vote counting. despite continued advances in voting technology, zero there are security issues still persist, barbara simons is an expert on electronic voting and on the advisor of the election commission and her book is called broken ballots will your votes counties, welcome. >> thank you very much, it is a pleasure. >> you have been involved in computer science most of your adult left. >> i have a ph.d. >> rose: yes. that qualifies you. how did you get involved in this, though, the technology of voting? >> well, in 2003, a colleague of mine, david dill, a professor at stanford discovered that silicon centrally, santa clara county was about to buy voting machines to be used there a